Author Topic: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2  (Read 402 times)

tpdavis

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2017, 08:10:21 PM »
Raising with the topping lift and one fwd shroud undone like you do is safe.  I had assumed you just attach the topping lift to the end of the fwd aka to keep the mast turned and use the main halyard to lift.  If you keep all four shrouds attached and lift with the topping lift you could apply enough tension to bend/kink the mast with it sideways when you go to attach the forestay. 

If you use the topping lift to keep the mast twisted by attaching and tensioning to the fwd aka; and use the main halyard to hoist ;and keep all four shrouds attached, then you should release the topping lift before attaching the forestay. 

Bottom line, you want to avoid bending the mast while it is held tightly athwartship by all four shrouds when using the winch.  That is a long lever arm and the winch provides a lot of mechanical advantage.  When the mast is in its normal fore/aft orientation, the winch tension could still kink the mast, but it would be a lot harder to do (think about the difference between breaking a 2 by 4 in the 2 direction versus breaking it in the 4 direction).  Plus you do want the forestay facing forward when you attach it, right?
R/Thom
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FrankP

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2017, 09:36:51 PM »
How much easier is it to use the winch than the factory mast raising system? My only beef with it is the 6 to 1 pully gets so tight that it will not release when you lower it. I should play with it to have the mast vertical with more left on the pulley. Burt alas we are in winter now with some ice on the lakes so there is plenty of time to try new things. My boat winch is about the same height as the bow of the boat when all the way on the trailer. My guess I would have to make it higher or have a taller second winch just for the mast raising. I have a topping lift too so I will try that out instead of the halyard. All I need is a D ring.
There is nothing more exhilarating and relaxing than sailing.

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demens

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2017, 09:37:08 AM »
Bottom line, you want to avoid bending the mast while it is held tightly athwartship by all four shrouds when using the winch.  That is a long lever arm and the winch provides a lot of mechanical advantage.  When the mast is in its normal fore/aft orientation, the winch tension could still kink the mast, but it would be a lot harder to do (think about the difference between breaking a 2 by 4 in the 2 direction versus breaking it in the 4 direction).  Plus you do want the forestay facing forward when you attach it, right?
Just went out to look at the mast, to make sure i already don't have any kinks in it ! Fortunately I don't, though am winding it up via the hayard. Will have to look next time I rig it, to see how much lateral twist is in the mast, when I go to connect the forestay.
Looking at the "official" windrider video on using their A frame mast raising system,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j178X4wWPCE
the mast appears to be at a similar 90 degrees to the axis of the boat for pretty much all the time, so perhaps am OK here ...
I am a definite convert to having all 4 shrouds attached though, it avoids having any other stabilizing ropes/poles involved.
As a quick additional thought, has anyone just tied on an additional line or wire to the mast fitting itself, and used that to winch the mast up ? If it was just loose line, it could be cleated off somewhere at the bottom of the mast, once the mast was up. That way the mast would be aligned fore and aft as you attached the forestay. Is that similar to raising it via the screecher stay ?
(almost) merry xmas all
Colin, St Pete, Fl

tpdavis

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2017, 10:58:50 AM »
How much easier is it to use the winch than the factory mast raising system? My only beef with it is the 6 to 1 pully gets so tight that it will not release when you lower it. I should play with it to have the mast vertical with more left on the pulley. Burt alas we are in winter now with some ice on the lakes so there is plenty of time to try new things. My boat winch is about the same height as the bow of the boat when all the way on the trailer. My guess I would have to make it higher or have a taller second winch just for the mast raising. I have a topping lift too so I will try that out instead of the halyard. All I need is a D ring.

What makes the winch easier to use is there is a LOT less line to play with since the mechanical advantage of the winch is gearing and not multiple pulleys.  Since you have the factory system, you won't need the rear crutch to get the height advantage, just attach your main halyard to the triangle (like normal) and the winch to the other side of it.  You could use your topping lift to do the hoist if you still want to leave one shroud undone.  Since you have installed a screacher halyard, you also have that option for either hoisting or keeping the mast twisted.  If you want to keep using the factory system (which is convenient if you have to lower the mast while on the water), you can replace the camcleat with a spinlock cleat which will be much easier to release. 
R/Thom
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rceballos

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2017, 03:17:58 PM »
You can step the mast using a dedicated mast stepping line and the trailer winch.
I know my topping lift is not strong enough to support the mast so I use a separate line that is....It is a brand new halyard (from the WindRider store).
The dedicated stepping line is attached to the front of the mast by a mast hound (bracket)....It pulls the mast up and rotates it fore and aft.
When mast rotation is necessary (to protect the mast base) I pull the bottom of the halyard till the mast base is cleared.
Using this method I can keep all four ama shrouds connected while raising the mast (mast sway is minimum).
The mast stepping line stays attached to the mast, pulled down by a short bungee (while sailing or transporting).

http://www.windriderforum.com/smf/gallery/1/4424-241217140532.jpeg
http://www.windriderforum.com/smf/gallery/1/4424-241217140943.jpeg
http://www.windriderforum.com/smf/gallery/1/4424-241217141251.jpeg
http://www.windriderforum.com/smf/gallery/1/4424-241217141419.jpeg
http://www.windriderforum.com/smf/gallery/1/4424-241217141723.jpeg
http://www.windriderforum.com/smf/gallery/1/4424-241217142737.jpeg


« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 08:26:50 AM by rceballos »
Richard
USCG Master Chief Ret.   Scottsmoor, Fl.

tpdavis

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2017, 05:01:06 PM »
rce, you did a few nice little things.  The pin keeper attached to the mast base; the dedicated cleat at the mast bottom for the main halyard.  I see where you prevent sway and keep the mast turned on one side, but don't see what keeps it from swaying toward the jib/forestay since the other side shroud wasn't attached--perhaps that was just the timing of the photo. 
R/Thom
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WSRK

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2017, 09:51:23 AM »
I've found that the key to raising and lowering the mast with all four shrouds attached is to rotate the front of the mast to the opposite side of the boat from the rear mast crutch. My rear mast crutch is on the port side, so I rotate the front of the mast to the starboard side, which leaves enough slack in the shrouds to attach and detach the jib.
Multihull Man
Palm Beach County, FL

rceballos

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2017, 11:01:15 AM »
tpdavis, Good eye....

The mast rest on it's side only while it is on the crutches.  The dedicated stepping line is attached to the top front of the mast (using a mast hound bracket).
When the mast is raised the stepping line (attached front center) rotates the mast fore and aft.
While lowering the mast I rotate the mast, with the halyard, to clear the mast base and properly rest it on the rear crutch.

In the picture it looks like the starboard shrouds are not connected to the ama BUT, if you zoom in you will see that they are connected (all four shrouds are connected).  As the mast raises, and lifts off the crutch,  the mast centers and the shroud equalize. (all four shrouds connected=less sway)

Even though the picture shows the mast base pin installed....I rarely ever use it.

rceballos

Richard
USCG Master Chief Ret.   Scottsmoor, Fl.

FrankP

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 02:28:27 PM »
With the factory system I have all 4 stays attached while raising the mast but I have my wife to make sure the mast turns to prevent damage to the mast base. I have broken 2 before Robert told me how not to watch the top of the mast as much as the base. I think I will see if having the dedicated mast raising line and the winch works better. I have to buy a roller for the strap to roll on just below the front mast crutch and a mast hound for the top of the mast for the new line. Thanks.
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triharder

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2018, 10:39:38 PM »
Forgot to point out:

I've attached my topping lift to the port side of the mast with a s/s saddle and rivets thus it automatically holds the mast at 90 when tensioned  with the boat winch strap.

The aluminium pole is removed once the mast is vertical the mast is turned fore & aft to connect the head sail, this is easily accomplished.

Then the final forward lower shroud is connected.
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lt4supr

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Re: Windrider 17 Mast Raising System Version 2
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2018, 06:06:06 PM »
My topping lift comes straight from the rear of the mast.
Works great,no addition attachments but a shackle and a micro block.
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