Author Topic: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?  (Read 199 times)

BruceWoods

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Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« on: September 13, 2017, 11:15:05 AM »
I had a very interesting set of days sailing Trickeration, my WR 17.

Day 1:  not much wind. My crew member and I decided the shrouds needed tightening, so we did each lee shroud together in turn, and got each one notch tighter. We liked that.

Day 2: more wind, maybe 7 mph, and my new crew was content to just ride around, so we didn't change much. Had fun anyway.

Day 3: started with about 8. Had a very knowledgeable monohull race guy with me. As the wind built to about 10, maybe 12, we adjusted various sails, went different courses, had a blast. He mentioned that if I could tighten the shrouds one more click in high winds, it would point higher.  I didn't feel comfortable trying it on the fly with the dammit rings, and clevis pins, so I just nodded and thought about it.

With all that said, I know how to change the tension by hand before sailing, or in light wind. Got me wondering, though, about times where you need to tighten for changed conditions, or maybe you have the shrouds looser for mast raising that you do for sailing.

Anyway, finally the question: anybody got a way to tighten the shrouds on the fly? Maybe some kind of line on the lowers that you pull tight and it clicks to keep that tension? Or something even better?

Thanks,

Bruce
Raleigh, NC WR 17
New Bern, NC Com-pac 23

lt4supr

  • Capt.Rob
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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 12:34:32 PM »
Yes we do Bruce,many of us have a running back shroud
WR 17  #305.
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tpdavis

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 01:02:34 PM »
Despite what your very knowledgeable monohull race guy says, though; the boat won't point higher with tighter shrouds.  Monohulls are rigid boats.  Multihulls are flexible boats.  Especially the WR17 with sliding tube akas, aluminum and plastic construction. 

The old F241s and F27s without rotating rigs had adjustable back stays on them.  The purpose was to bend the mast to depower the mainsail and tighten the jib luff/forestay.  Doing such a thing on a rotating rig that has no mast spreaders is just a waste of time.  But then again, sailors like to play with things and have the ability to convince themselves that they are going faster if they pull harder...it takes a lot of experience before that goes away.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

BruceWoods

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 01:37:41 PM »
Okay, cool.

So what would help me point higher?

Willing to get all perspectives here.

Raleigh, NC WR 17
New Bern, NC Com-pac 23

tpdavis

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 02:40:44 PM »
Nothing can help the basic design point higher.   It just is a poorly pointing design.  Pretty much have to get a different boat or change the whole thing until it isn't a WR17 to make it point higher. 

Suggest you enjoy it the way it is. 

That being said, if you like to tinker.  ...

Increase the rake on the mast by a few feet (you will need a longer forestay). That will give the sailplan a better angle of attack and you will be able to point better.  However, it will also unbalance the boat so you have a lot of weather helm.  You may also have to contend with the boom in your face.  Constant use of the rudder will slow you down, but you may get to the weather mark faster, anyway, depending on how much slower you are going.  If it becomes too bad, you may need a deeper rudder or a bigger jib or both. 

That would all be in the realm of tinkering and there's no guarantee that any of it will help the basic design point better...it is a fast boat but takes a lot of tacks to get to the weather mark.  Sailing with monohull guys will be discouraging since they are used to pointing a lot better than multihullers...but the WR17 is the poorest pointing boat I've ever sailed.

R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

lt4supr

  • Capt.Rob
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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 08:06:41 PM »
Bottom line is to sail more .fined the sweet spot in your sail trim for your mark and go. Tighter trim may not be the answer.you'll know when you got it down.
WR 17  #305.
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tpdavis

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 11:44:04 PM »
I may have sounded too negative about the WR17.  Despite the poor pointing...it is a great recreational and fun boat.  Bulletproof hulls; easier to sail well than most; quick to get from trailer to water; add a screacher or spinnaker and it is a great package for family sailing.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

SouthernWin

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 08:26:47 AM »
The only thing I don't like about the shrouds not ultra tight is the occasional slamming they take from waves on the beam.

Also,  I noticed my dad's boat seemed to be a little faster after he added shims..he was able to slowly pull away when I followed..so I added them.  Maybe his was always faster, new boat, sails. design.   Shims helped a lot with keeping things tight.    Shrouds are about as tight as can get them.


BruceWoods

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 08:58:04 AM »
That slamming is why I tightened the shrouds one notch, after having loosened them to make it easier to raise the mast.

Shims? Can you elaborate?

Anyway, I am going to do some experimenting with various tightenings. I may leave it where it is, as a sort of happy medium, default setting.

One thing I am going to try is a temporary extension on the front port shroud, just to give a bit of slack when raising mast, but plenty of guidance for the mast to not sway wildly, like seems to happen when I leave that shroud disconnected.

Thanks for your reply!

Bruce
Raleigh, NC WR 17
New Bern, NC Com-pac 23

BruceWoods

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 09:02:10 AM »
I may have sounded too negative about the WR17.  Despite the poor pointing...it is a great recreational and fun boat.  Bulletproof hulls; easier to sail well than most; quick to get from trailer to water; add a screacher or spinnaker and it is a great package for family sailing.

Well, no harm really done; hey, this is a forum where anyone should feel good about discussing things from their point of view.

I have sailed Com-pac sloops and catboats for years. Believe me, I know about the "pointing" wars, haha. What I want to do is be able to have different tensions for different conditions, and I hate only being able to tension, de-tension at the dock on a long day with lots of changes.

I will kind of muddle along, and I do appreciate being able to try to observe and see what is happening, asking questions as I go.

Bruce
Raleigh, NC WR 17
New Bern, NC Com-pac 23

H.B.

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 10:25:14 AM »
TP,

Based on your profile you may have more experience on the water... However, you have far less experience in a Windrider than many on this forum.

Most of your other "points" on the performance of the WR 17 are somewhat accurate, but you are incorrect on the finer "points" and attributes of a tight rig, and the addition of an adjustable rig.  Adjustable rear lower stays clearly change the performance of this particular boat.  I have sailed a WR 17 extensively for 15 years.  You have not sailed this hull enough (with adjustable stays) to have experienced the changes in performance that are achievable.  Yes the boat points poorly, always has, always will, but this is one of the things that helps.  One of the biggest factors, is forstay tension. It also gives one the ability to adjust the luff tension (from the cockpit) of the factory reacher if the boat is equipped with one.  Not trying to start an argument, but there are many of us out here that benefit greatly from adjustable stays on this fine craft. :)  Perhaps you should purchase a Windrider, sail it for awhile, and give it (running lowers) a try.  If you ever find yourself in Virginia, or the Carolinas, give me a call.  I'd be happy to show you how well the adjustable rig works on my 17. :)

H.B.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 10:41:44 AM by H.B. »
Blow, Blow, Blow the boat........


tpdavis

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 10:47:53 AM »
But then again, sailors like to play with things and have the ability to convince themselves that they are going faster if they pull harder...it takes a lot of experience before that goes away.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

H.B.

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 10:58:10 AM »
Your confidence is entertaining !  Experience and age are two completely different things !
Blow, Blow, Blow the boat........

BruceWoods

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Re: Tensioning shrouds on the fly?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 02:55:15 PM »
H.B.

Do you have any sort of measurements of how much you pull in on those. Roby has a type of vang on his also. Doesn't seem like a lot of slack would need to be taken up.

Thanks for the pictures!

I wonder if a simple ratchet rope would work as far as to experiment around.

Bruce
Raleigh, NC WR 17
New Bern, NC Com-pac 23