Author Topic: Astus for Sale  (Read 2400 times)

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2018, 12:47:27 AM »
I've never claimed to be expert, but I am a nuclear engineer...

TP i had canted in foils on my a class schuerer they angled inwards so i can see what you are saying they did not affect steering but gave extra lift and assisted in side drift,
can you say what may be the problem with toms austus as i hate to bluster.

Sight unseen, no way to be sure.  My suspicion, though, is that Tom screwed it up himself since one of the first things he said he did was rehang the rudder since he said it was hung crooked.  Failing that, I'd look at the alignment of the amas with the main hull; particularly the one in the water when the boat has lee helm; if the rear aka is slightly too long it causes the ama in the water to point slightly away from the boat at the stern, you have a rudder effect pushing the stern away causing copious lee helm.  But like I said, no boat in my back yard to look at except my own searail...which, I recommend as an alternative to some boat built in France and with no US Support.  The SeaRail has a really good guy who will help through any issues you have with it (and it is faster and better looking).   
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

monomuncher

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2018, 01:21:11 AM »
I would agree with you regarding ama alignment, my 2015 model weta had 4inch toe in ama to ama and the middle hull was crooked inbetween,
it also differed in height from ground to top of amas, we used hard rubber spacers in the main hull ama opening to shim it back even, but then the heights was even worse as the amas went outwards they went upwards and shifted forward. I think the only way to align properly is to use 2 plum bobs under the centre of each hull at each end mark onto the ground, the austus having straight beams wont change in height like the uprake  beams on the weta so should be easier to do if it needs shifting, i have a feeling that toms centre hull is at an angle to the amas and the centre board case is showing this, sortof like a car crabbing on the road. perhaps tom just measured the alignment of the amas to amas and not the main hull to amas

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2018, 06:48:56 PM »
Dunno.  Probably never will know.  One way to find out for sure is to fit a trolling motor on the bow (or a slow speed tow) and go out with no rig in light or no breeze and flat water just to see how the hulls move through the water with boards up, boards down, one ama up, other ama up, rudder up, rudder down.  There's only so much you can figure out by physical measurements--even that experiment might not be conclusive but it might help eliminate possibilities. 
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

lt4supr

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2018, 09:48:44 PM »
I think that's a great test.should answer alot.
WR 17  #305.
Class chairman

monomuncher

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2018, 05:26:13 AM »
does any one know what the yardstick for the austus 16.5 is?

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2018, 10:57:54 AM »
I wouldn't think an Astus 16.5 has been raced enough for a yardstick.  However, I did some TCF (aussie style) calculations based on published numbers (that usually under guess the weight for glass boats, but are typically more accurate for the rotomolded). It comes in at 0.95 which is nearly identical to the number for a Hobie Getaway catamaran but slightly faster than a Windrider 17 (0.93).  Other comparitors include Weta at 0.94 and a SeaRail at a much faster 1.06.  A Corsair 24 is 1.02.  You can't really know anything about how fast the boat truly is in the water without sailing/racing alongside others, though.  No way to tell pointing ability nor how well/poorly it handles chop or how stable it is without having to reef. 

If you are interested, the Aus calc (omitting all the tweaks) is (Length (meters) to the 0.3 power times total sail area (sq meters) (main, jib and downwind sail all added together) raised to the 0.4 power) divided by the sum of the boat weight plus crew weight (in Kg) raised to the 0.325 power.  This formulae is also the basis for texel.  It provides a basis for guessing the performance of a design...based on my own races in the boats I've owned or crewed on, it is reasonably accurate in the real world (I haven't raced my SeaRail yet, though).
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2018, 01:22:35 PM »
I guess I should have mentioned that the Windrider and Getaway had spinnakers that were about the same size as the mainsail.  Without them the calculations end up with much smaller numbers.  I did build those spinnakers for those boats and they were faster downwind as a result. 
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

monomuncher

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2018, 04:51:14 AM »
so in theory the austus 16.5 should beat the weta around the cans in general sailing in all winds.  Tom would know..

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2018, 10:08:18 AM »
He has mentioned that it is faster than his Weta-especially with 2 on board.  The number for the weta is calculated for singlehanding.  I used 2 bodies for all the others including the Astus. 

They have some nice design features on the Astus-I am particularly impressed with the rigging since they managed to put the shrouds attached to the rear ama/aka junction so there's no need for a chainplate and associated reinforcement in the middle of the ama.  They also managed to keep a lot of the spray from drenching the sailors (which is why I won't own a Weta).
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

monomuncher

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2018, 08:19:09 AM »
I bought spray guards for the older model weta with smaller chimes, they stop the spray but they also have too much drag on the boats performance, the new model has bigger chimes and the spray is way less  I am considering the sports austus verses the new foam sandwich weta / the austus 16.5 model available to me has Gennaker 20 mē on carbon bowsprit & furler tri-radial Gutter Sport Sails  (20 mē) Traveller Main sail Minor fittings sport (6 blocks Main sheet Tackle, Cunningham,, telescopic tiller extension) Polyester dagger board for sport version motor bracket road trailer with beach trolley. I have some concerns it may be just like toms in regard to the centreboard/helm issues but i have been assured it isnt by the austus dealer. the austus suits my needs better atm but i dont need a lemon...this will be the first one in aus. if i decide to get it.

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2018, 10:30:04 AM »
I made spray guards for my friends' Weta...it lowered the wetness from firehose to garden hose...but the boat was still too wet for sailing fun in 50 degree water and 20 kt winds even with the dry top I bought specifically for it when I crewed for him.  Not sorry to see it go.

I thought I read somewhere that the new Astus 16.5 was redesigned for a centerboard instead of a daggerboard like its bigger brother the 20.5 has.  In any event, you at least will have a local dealer to take any issues to, something that Tom did not have available.  I don't think you should worry overmuch that Tom's issues are endemic to the design. 

I'm enjoying learning my SeaRail but there's no real dealer network to go to for help...Phil (owner) has been very responsive, though, by email or phone contact (but there haven't been any conundrum issues).  It is definitely a fast and dry boat and I like that it folds.  Biggest issue for me is it takes longer than I want to go from trailer to sailing.  Love the self tacking jib.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

monomuncher

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2018, 09:57:33 PM »
Nice choice tp, i have a lake front property so i am able to leave it fully rigged at the waters edge but a long narrow windy path to the open water so need something able to carry an outboard to get there   ;D but the sea rail is too big for what i need,  :'(   there is no austus dealer in aus. so i will have to communicate via email, the new model austus 16.5 has a pivoting cb i would definately prefer the daggerboard to raise in windy conditions which is the model they have on offer to me, hence my concern. I was thinking if i was to weld 6inches onto the ama arms each and a new pin hole should easily be able to widen it by 12inches of extra rm, lengthen stays/tiller extension/ ropes etc.wonder how that would go...Might stop the front beam from hitting the water as easily  the austus rep has indicated it can be righted same as the weta but has never tried /
he also feels there is enough volume in the amanas to lift the middle hull out the water / skim mode would be nice i like to keep my steering..  Tom chime in pls..