Author Topic: Astus for Sale  (Read 2398 times)

Vincent

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2017, 09:01:22 AM »
Hi, Tom

This does not seem like a good experience. I bought one of the 2 Astus 20.2 from the first shipment just about 3 years ago now. That was a very different story.
1- From bubble wrap removal to sailing under gennaker took 90 minutes! I could not believe it. I had never rigged the boat before but everything was super easy, and the fit of every component was perfect.
2- My helm experience is 3 fingers on the tiller extension. Whether cruising in 5 knots of wind or blasting at 17 knots of speed, the boat is perfectly balanced. I pushed it in 25 gusting to 30 with no reef upwind and one reef on a reach. Maximum load on the structure.... Still 3 fingers on the tiller. Most people I take on-board in heavy conditions have they jaw drop when they take the stick.

I have never sailed the 16.5 so I can't predict its behavior. But if you have any question that you might think transfer from an Astus to another type of Astus, let me know. I've become a bit emotionally attached to my boat because I find it so capable; so I would love if others had the same experience.

Best regards.
Vincent.

FrankP

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2018, 10:06:49 AM »
Sorry to hear about your problems with your 16.2 Tom. I was looking at the 20.5 and wonder if the quality issues you had were an anomaly or if it is pervasive across the entire line up of boats. Could any owners relate their stories. I looked at the blog articles and still have questions. I wish they were going to be at the Chicago Boat shoe next week Jan 10-14th 2018 but I guess there are not enough fresh water sailors up here in the upper Midwest.
There is nothing more exhilarating and relaxing than sailing.

2015 Windrider 17

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2018, 10:57:52 AM »
Frank, you live close to Phil Medley who is the manufacturer of the SeaRail (they are put together down in O'Fallon, IL which is near St. Louis).  You should contact him for the 19 if you want great performance for a lake sailor.  Granted, I am still learning my SeaRail since I've only had it since late September and winter sailing is just uncomfortable-I'm a candy ass now that I'm 67. 
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

Dean

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 11:42:02 AM »
If it makes you feel better I bought a Melges 17 (scow) after selling my beloved Rave.  The 17 leaked as if the plugs had been forgotten on shore.  It's Melges.  They are the boats of the 1% and Buddy Melges has been building the best for forever.  The Reichel-Pugh design is excellent except for one thing: the boat leaks from the bilge boards (daggers).  It took a while to solve the problems and the only fix is at the factory in Wisconsin.  Melges is very quiet on the 17 and the initial excitement faded.  Lesson Learned:  Any new boat from any manufacturer needs a lot of beta testing before plunging into the purchase. 

TriOrDie

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2018, 11:38:28 AM »
I'm a bit confused.  Are you trying to sell a boat that can't be reliably sailed?  What price are you putting on it in this condition?  I am interested in it or a similar boat like it such as a Trikala 19, Avidine 18 or other small tri but the price for yours would have to be worth the risk to be able to restore it.

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2018, 01:12:27 PM »
I'm a bit confused.  Are you trying to sell a boat that can't be reliably sailed?  What price are you putting on it in this condition?  I am interested in it or a similar boat like it such as a Trikala 19, Avidine 18 or other small tri but the price for yours would have to be worth the risk to be able to restore it.
He has lots of photos/videos showing him sailing it.  It is a reliable sailboat, just has a quirk that is irritating and puzzling.  Probably wouldn't even be noticed by someone with less experience than Tom.  I still think it is one of the amas is pointing slightly wrong, so when it is in the water, the boat has lee helm. Easy to check and easy fix, just redrill the holes in one aka--easy peasy.  Also easy to see how it could happen at manufacturing.  Also easy to live with, just have to pay attention to the tiller which is sine qua non in a small fast tri anyway.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

TriOrDie

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2018, 04:20:58 PM »
If it's so easy quesy why isn't it fixed?  And Tom, why did you have to do all these repairs on a new boat, where was the dealer/manufacturer support?  Sounds like this boat was built the day after a Mardi Gra weekend.  Where is the boat located now and what is today's price?  I'm looking for a small light tri but not at the new prices; I buy used cars too.

lt4supr

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2018, 07:57:52 PM »
Tom is in N.Carolina

WR 17  #305.
Class chairman

Tom Kirkman

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2018, 11:56:28 PM »
I have dropped the price to just $12K. In the interest of being honest, I can tell you that the odd helm is a bit dangerous. On starboard tack it has extreme weather helm. On port tack it has extreme lee helm. If you let go of the tiller you had better be holding onto something as it will snap over in an instant. HARD. A beginner would be in big trouble with this boat. The amas and hull are dead on square. Most likely the daggerboard trunk needs to be cut out and re-aligned, then glassed back in.

The dolly broke after the first few uses. That has been scrapped but the trailer has been fitted for launching direct.

The 16.5 is not a light boat for a 16-17 footer. I took the boat and trailer to a nearby scrap dealer and used their scales to weigh the entire rig, then hoisted the boat here and took just the trailer back and weighed that. All up, including sails, etc. the 16.5 (mine is the "lighter" infusion model) weighs 578 pounds.

The sails have not held up very well. They are intact but I would figure on a new main and jib in another season, depending on how much use you give it.

I have had some fun sailing it but make no mistake, this thing is a handful to sail unless you're going to stay in light air. It is not hard to screw up and capsize or pitch it over. But that's the warts. If you're willing to deal with those I think my price is a pretty good deal. Just realize there is still some work to do on the boat. Astus tells me that they went to school on this boat and that subsequent ones are much better. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. I haven't seen another in person so can't really say.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 12:02:22 AM by Tom Kirkman »

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2018, 11:33:13 AM »
I don't see how it could possibly be the daggerboard trunk.  Some boats have their centerboards (I'm thinking F241) offset from centerline and still are balanced on both tacks.  I reread some of your initial review on the boat sailing it for the first times and you were not describing the same behavior as you are describing now.  All you had then was some rudder/sailplan stalling (which is common in a fast tri if you have the mainsheet too tight). 

The forced on the daggerboard wouldn't cause this behavior since the daggerboard would have to be significantly too far aft on one tack and significantly too far forward on the other--I'm pretty sure that isn't happening. 

I hope you sell it and get something you like or stick with your Wr17 and Weta.  Maybe you need a boat that starts with a W  ;D

R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
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Tom Kirkman

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2018, 01:36:31 PM »
There was so much going on with the boat those first few outings it was impossible to nail everything down in just a couple or three trips. The trunk isn't offset - it is angled to one side. On any point of sail, if you let go of the tiller the boat will sail itself in continual circles, always to starboard. This is why on starboard tack it heads up and port tack it heads down. It doesn't stop head to wind, it keeps going to DDW and then turns and heads back up and repeats the process. The hull and ama are dead on square and equi-distant in every measurement (a real surprise since nothing else on the boat is). I had thought that I was holding the tiller fairly close to center (within 4 degrees or so) until I made some markings this past summer and checked. To keep the boat going straight takes about 7 or 8 degrees rudder in lighter air and as much as 12 to 14 in heavy air. That doesn't do much for optimum speed. Mast rake has zero effect on the boat. I've had it forward by 2 degrees and to the rear by 7 degrees. No change in helm.

I have been talking to the factory that builds the Diam 24 and may look at that, although it is much larger than what I want and would be very, very difficult to single-hand if you plan to make full use of the boat. Now that boat in a 17 footer with the same VPLP hull design, which is what the Astus could have been, would fill the largest existing gap in the multi-hull market.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 07:58:04 AM by Tom Kirkman »

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2018, 03:25:57 PM »
Mebbe you can get Astus to take this one back as a trade-in on a new 2018 model...I think I read somewhere they switched from daggerboard to centerboard this year like the 20.5 is now a cb boat.  Multi23 owners (some of them) hate the cb because it is so slowing at high speed due to turbulence in the groove.  Some have even gone so far as to major modify the boat to put in a db.

Just so I'm clear, is the db is pointing right or is it canted outboard to port?  On these little boats, normally the db trunk is built in to the main hull and not added afterwards (ie, part of the mould bottom half of main hull).  The other boats in this production run "should" exhibit the same behavior. 

BTW, there is someone close to you who posted on Anarchy that he's interested in your boat--seems to live close to you, too.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

Tom Kirkman

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 04:21:44 PM »
I wouldn't have another one at this point. The Daggerboard is angled to one sie. Not canted. Yes, they should all be that way since the mold wasn't changed, to my knowledge anyway. But I did hear from one other owner concerning the same thing. Makes me wonder if they changed to swing up centerboard was the result. Maybe not.

Thing about the swing up boards is that if you attempt to use them in any position other than all the way down, the center of resistance changes. A straight up and down daggerboard, although less convenient, can be used at various heights without shifting the center of resistance. But this has nothing to do with odd helm problems.

Someone in my regional area contacted me back before Christmas and we took a sail. He lost interest almost immediately although he did say the boat was a lot faster than he would have expected.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 09:39:48 PM by Tom Kirkman »

tpdavis

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2018, 12:55:14 PM »
There is a method that will verify that the issue is the daggerboard but you will need help.  Someone with a boat and a motor needs to tow you with you being dragged behind far enough so you aren't in his prop wash (all sails down and all foils up).  See how the boat is behaving with your weight on one side, then on the other (it should be similar but opposite on both sides).  Then insert the daggerboard while your weight is in the middle.  Boat should turn if it is the daggerboard/trunk.  Go ahead and try your weight on either side again and see if it is similar to with no daggerboard.  Finally, remove the daggerboard but lower the rudder and bungie it amidships.  See what happens with your weight in the middle and then on either side. 

Lot of bother for a boat you don't want, but it would be beneficial to the new owner to know where the problem lies.  Besides, you've invested so much angst in it, you probably would like to have it confirmed.
R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Former F24 MK II Single Hand Racer
Former Triak Sailing Kayak
Former Hobie Getaway
Former Weta Crew
Former Windrider 17 Crew

TriOrDie

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Re: Astus for Sale
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2018, 05:11:27 PM »
      I was or would still be interested in this boat "if".  I PM'ed Tom about it but after a few questions answered I recommended he still put in a claim to Astus, this situation is what I call ridiculous.  In the automotive world he would be entitled to get out of the boat under the lemon law.  Nuf said with my two cents about that.
      On the other hand I guess $12K is still a great price for someone with the knowledge to eventually track down the situation.  Wish I knew more about boat design to put in a bid.
      At this point I just say good luck Tom.  Right now I have a Super Tramp which is terrific for what it is but would love a more modern boat in this class.  SeaRail is good but ? $30K ?